Reclaim You- Money Talk: From Terrifying To A Tool
Season 2 Episode 20: Money Talk: From Terrifying To A Tool with Casey
Like, follow and leave us a comment on YouTube, Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
Today, hosts Sarah and Casey kick off a new series on money and mental health.
This is the first episode of a handful to explore your relationship with money, how it came to be, how society impacts it and how to re establish a relationship with it.
Today Casey and Sarah dive into their personal financial journeys, from childhood experiences to adult realizations, exploring how money shapes our lives, values, and self-worth.
The conversation touches on the shame and stigma often associated with finances, the importance of financial education, and the goal of viewing money as a tool rather than a source of fear.
Whether you're struggling with money anxiety, feel a sense of shame about what you do or don't have, or are simply curious about the psychological aspects of finance, this episode offers relatable stories and insights to help you lean into your relationship with money. Join us for an honest discussion about one of life's topics that isn't often spoken about.
Start to get clear on your money stuff. Consider:
For me, money has been...
Money is...
What I hope money will be...
Thanks for listening to Reclaim You with Reclaim Therapy!
To learn more about Reclaim Therapy and how to work with a therapist on the team, head to https://www.reclaimtherapy.org.
Be sure to comment, like and subscribe here, or on YouTube and come follow along on Instagram!
-
Sarah (00:37)
everybody, welcome back to Reclaim You. Casey is here and we are talking about money.
Casey (00:43)
Moon-A!
Sarah (00:44)
Money.
Casey (00:45)
Great topic.
Sarah (00:46)
Who needs audio when we can just sing it? I know, to fill in the blank, I was just looking for that audio so that we could play it at the beginning of the episode, but I couldn't figure it out. I appreciate you for singing it, Casey.
Casey (00:49)
Money, money, Give me the mic.
You know, I'm always here, every day.
Sarah (01:04)
I appreciate you. Love it. Love it. All right, so money. We're talking money.
a big one. And we thought we'd start by asking a few questions. You ready? Okay, three questions. I'm going to rapid fire and then we'll go back to the first one. What money has been, what money is now, and what I hope money will be?
Casey (01:17)
Ready. Bring it on.
Mmm.
Sarah (01:29)
Fill in the blanks.
Casey (01:31)
Money was terrifying. Money is annoying. What I hope money will be is a tool.
Sarah (01:33)
Mm.
Mm.
I love it. A tool. I'm so curious.
Casey (01:43)
Yeah.
Mmm, we'll get to it.
Sarah (01:46)
Okay, okay, yeah. Let's start with money was terrifying. Well, actually, no. First, let's talk about why talking about money is important.
Casey (01:55)
my gosh, yes. mean, when Sarah and I were thinking of important topics to talk about on the podcast, money is always one that I've wanted to do. But I also don't see a lot of people talk about it. I mean, like, obviously, we have those podcasts like, how to invest and like, you know, all of that stuff. But like, how much money relates to the work that we do? Whether it's the fact that
Sarah (02:08)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (02:24)
therapists have a complex sometimes about charging money for a service that is so emotional and intimate, whether it's the idea of our clients and money challenges, or whether it has to do with like, the way we were brought up. Do we know about money? What did we learn about money? Or, you know, just life circumstances that make life hard when money is a problem, whether it's not enough or
job or whatever it is. And I'm really thankful that we're talking about it because I hope that it resonates with people because it's also a topic that's fairly stigmatized and taboo to talk about.
Sarah (03:02)
Yeah, and filled with lots of shame for lots of people. think myself included, like money and the idea of money, there's so many layers of shame attached to money in so many people's money stories, whether if they're coming from financial insecurity or if they are coming from a lot of financial security and feel as though that they haven't earned what they have. So it can really, yeah, it can run the spectrum.
Casey (03:12)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yes. it just gets me tingly. It's such a good topic. Because the shame, right? It's like, think of what we do, right? Trauma and eating disorder treatment. And the idea that shame is such a big part of both of those, and they're intertwined, but also the idea of comparison, right? We compare our bodies to other bodies. We compare our jobs to other people's jobs. We compare our experience to other people's.
Sarah (03:30)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Casey (03:56)
And our finances are just another one of those things that, you know, if you make a certain X amount of dollars that you are worthy or you are valid or you are important. and it's something that's just exacerbated by the media and movies and this and that social media. and I think we need to like cut the crap in here because that's just making everything worse.
Sarah (04:17)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (04:23)
Right, just like diet culture, the idea that we keep perpetuating these ideas makes people feel more more shame and we get desperate. Right, but to be able to have compassion for how you understood, in this case, money in your life and if you want to change that and learn something different, having the support to do so.
Sarah (04:47)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (04:48)
So, yeah.
Sarah (04:50)
And for therapists, right, therapists such as we are, it's right, know, we know the nitty gritty stuff about most of the people we work with, right? So we know when things are scarce and we know when things are abundant or we know when things are kind of like status quo, normal, whatever that is for.
for people. I think that sometimes some of our, like this is where we talk about counter-transference, right? Like some of our own stuff can get so triggered when we're working with people we care really deeply about and we're also charging money for a service. So I think it can go both ways of therapists on this side of the screen or this side of the couch, you know, with our clients and you know, if there are any therapists listening, feels so important that you're doing your own stuff, your own work around money.
Casey (05:22)
Mm.
Sarah (05:37)
while we support our clients to do their own work around money.
Casey (05:40)
Well, and this is why this is going to be a series and not a one-off is because there's just so much to talk about, right? Is, I mean, I think, you know, we should do, we should do a segment on therapist versus, you know, the general folks is like what the difference is and how we can speak directly to our experiences. but I think the thing that
Sarah (05:47)
Yeah.
Casey (06:04)
you're talking about counter-transference and I definitely like certain, certain clientele that come in and like just the way that they talk about money and the way that like, they don't talk about money, right? Can definitely bring up those old wounds, those old like, mindsets or even just like experiences in the past coming forward. And I think it reminded me, you know, when I started
in private practice a couple years ago to really start doing my own work. Almost four.
Sarah (06:35)
four years ago. Hold on. Time out. Four years ago. Casey's been with reclaim for almost four years. She said a couple. I'm like, times two? Four years? Hey. Okay, anyway. Keep going.
Casey (06:42)
Woo woo!
Yeah.
no, it's very exciting. so the idea of, you know, going back to those questions, like what money was, money was terrifying, right? It was, I grew up in poverty. my mom worked three jobs. that wasn't in the picture. So, you know, my mom worked her ass off and
What's interesting about the way that I grew up is I didn't know how poor I was. I never knew. My mom was and still is to this day, one of the most resilient people I've ever met in my life. And she knows how to stretch a dollar. She knows how to stretch food. She knows how to stretch an experience. I can tell you every free thing that you can do on this side of Southeast Pennsylvania.
Sarah (07:16)
Yeah.
that. Yeah.
Casey (07:38)
because we did it all. So part of my early childhood was that I didn't know, but I knew, know, like comparison to other kids. actually grew up as a poor kid in a rich neighborhood. So I grew up in like the King of Prussia area where it was a higher socioeconomic status and my friends had mansions and their parents were doctors. And I was like,
you have a pool in your backyard and they're like, yeah, we have horses. And I'm like, horses? What? And like they had name brand food in their fridge. Like that's what I was focused on. They're like, but we have a pool. And I'm like, I don't really care about that. Like I haven't a name brand cereal in my entire life. So being able to see that, but not necessarily feel much about it back then.
Sarah (08:07)
What?
Hmm.
I don't care about the bowl.
Casey (08:27)
I think was very interesting. And I think I take that part of my childhood in terms of being resilient and really understanding the value of a dollar. And I still do to this day. When it got rough was probably like high school. High school, I was no longer living at home. And I really kind of got thrown into this environment where I had to be an adult when I was 16.
Sarah (08:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Casey (08:53)
And I had no idea about like, I didn't have a bank account. I didn't have a phone. I didn't have, you know, a steady job. So probably three, the last three years of high school were really rough. I did money was something that if I was lucky to have it when I had it and I used it for like, yeah, to prioritize, right. Am I buying shampoo today or am I buying food today?
and so I think once I hit college and you started making more financial decisions, I realized how little I was taught about money. I had to Google how to write a check. If anybody out there who is listening has had to Google how to write a check, which I don't know, I'm speaking my age or something. Do they use checks anymore? I don't know. But back in our day, we had write checks.
Sarah (09:33)
huh. Yeah.
Some people do, some people do. You can mobile deposit now. Yeah.
Casey (09:49)
shoot, all right, well back in the day, I used to go to the Walmart and get my checks cashed, because I didn't have a bank account. And then credit cards. I didn't ever have a credit card, because my mom taught me to fear credit cards. Thank God. That would have gotten a little hairy.
Sarah (09:51)
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Thank, thank God it got a little hairy for me. Nobody taught me about credit cards. Nobody taught me about money. It was not, it was not pretty in those college years.
Casey (10:11)
Right. It got real hairy.
No, no. And if people listening, it's very normal if we're not taught, right? And then I hit, I graduated grad school, got a big girl job, and I met my husband. the podcast listeners are probably sick of talking to me talking about how wonderful my husband is. But one of the other wonderful things about my husband is that he has an accounting degree.
Sarah (10:34)
He is wonderful.
Yeah, I always forget that. He's like a jack of all trades, that guy.
Casey (10:43)
Yeah, it's pretty great. But what's super interesting is that we both grew up in the same type of environment. And I think that can be really helpful in relationships when you have that same background, because you can understand your values are probably pretty way you look at money. So he taught me everything about money. He helped me open accounts, he helped me
get a credit card. He helped me like, you know, get more cost effective services, like without any shame, just like, want to help, you know, like you weren't taught this and that's okay. Like I had to learn it on my own and I want to pay forward essentially. And it was like, I don't know, six months into his dating, he started doing this because it was my finances were a little egregious. It was, it was quite the mess.
Sarah (11:20)
Hmm.
It was a mess. Yeah, it was a mess.
Casey (11:40)
so now, you know, we're in the process of getting a house and my finances have never looked better, but it took a lot of work.
Sarah (11:43)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (11:49)
So it was scary and it is annoying because the housing market is trash. But I want it to be a tool, AKA we use it and look at money, not as something to be feared, but something to be understood and to be used to further our lives in the ways that we want it to. So we're not materialistic people. We don't, you know,
Sarah (11:50)
Yeah.
Yes.
Casey (12:16)
buy things that we don't need, but we're investing our money because that's what we want to do. And for people who might not want to do that, that's totally fine. But right now in our lives, that makes sense. And we're both on the same page. so, you know, I think that's at the end of the day, why we want to have money is to use it as a tool. So that's my life story when it comes to money.
Sarah (12:37)
Mm-hmm.
like the LeapReader Digest version, right? Yeah.
Casey (12:43)
Yeah, it's just a cliff note. You're missing a couple things, but hey, it's something.
Sarah (12:46)
Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah, and I think it's so interesting to think about how, still now, right? A lot of people don't talk about money. A lot of people don't talk about the reality of money situations because it's filled with so much shame, right? Because we weren't, for most part, I'm gonna generalize. And if you were brought up talking about money and learning about credit, amazing, good for you. Maybe it's our generation, I'm not really sure, but like.
Casey (13:04)
Good for you.
Sarah (13:10)
It just wasn't, right? There weren't a lot of life skills around money, I know that I had a job, I've been working since I've been 15, but I was supposed to pay for my own car insurance, like all of that kind of stuff. But the bigger picture, not so much, but just an expectation of like, well, you should have X, Y, and Z by now. Why aren't you doing that? But there's been no skill development along the way.
Casey (13:30)
Mmm, mm-hmm.
Totally.
Sarah (13:34)
Right? To a point where for a long time I just didn't even look at my money because I don't know. I didn't want to, you know? Yeah. It's a wonderful tool, Because then you're not super stressed, but then you're stressed about what might not be there, all of the things. So the talk about money to just normalize. That number one, it's a struggle for most people, right? That it actually isn't shameful to have money, to not have money, It's all about this
Casey (13:42)
Yeah, avoidance is a great tool.
Sarah (14:00)
understanding of how you relate to it, you know, and that might come with a lot of privilege, probably does, in saying how do you relate to it? A lot of people don't relate to it because they don't have a lot of money or they just have money to survive and that's all it is, is survival.
Casey (14:03)
Mm-hmm.
I clicked onto a couple things you were saying. One of them was the idea of growing up and having a job and having money, like having money to like do some things with, but also looking at the bigger picture. And then at that time that you're supposed to do the bigger picture, right? You should have this, this and this by now, right? And there's that, I don't know whether it's years or like a gap where it's like,
like I understood job equals money, but like I didn't understand what that looks like when I have children, when I, you know, have a career, like what does that look like? And I think it could probably relate to some of the podcasts we've been doing about like feeling like you're behind, right? It's like, I have so many people, you know, in my personal and professional life who just feel like, you know,
Sarah (14:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Casey (15:09)
people are moving back home with their parents or people who have to downsize or people who have to like move with roommates. we validate the frustration with that, of course, but I also go like, you're a badass. Like this is resiliency on fire because you're living within some of the worst financial times that we've seen living and surviving, right? And the fact that you're able to have your needs met to
Sarah (15:22)
huh.
Casey (15:37)
to the best that you can, I think it's something to be really proud there are times in my life where I probably felt very similar, like why don't I have this and why is this so hard? But at the same time, I can look back and be like, damn, we survived, we made it, we're yeah, I I think the idea that privilege comes into play, that's a huge part.
Sarah (15:52)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (16:01)
But I think the same thing, I think as therapists, what we understand about that privilege, like we think we talk about thin privilege a lot, right? But also being in a smaller body has its own struggles and its own, you know, set of circumstances, just like having money and growing up with money and being privileged in that way also doesn't always pan out the way that you'd like it to either.
because there is this same lack of awareness about money and that money is just available when in reality it isn't, right? It's still hard work regardless of where you're getting it from. But I think the idea of maybe answering those questions and somebody saying money is survival, I can validate the shit out of that too, right? It's just a means of survival. And how much money
Sarah (16:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Casey (16:56)
Like I really think money frames a lot of what we find important, what we prioritize, you know, what the choices we make for our future selves. And everyone is different, right? Like no two people make the same financial decision.
Sarah (17:12)
Right.
Casey (17:13)
You know, see people ordering coffee, right, at Starbucks, and you see a thousand different orders, right? And we could look at that from a diet culture mindset and say, they made that choice because of XYZ. We could do it from a trauma perspective and say, they ordered that XYZ. Or we could say they ordered it because of financial XYZ, right? The list goes on and on of being able to recognize that everyone is unique. And so when we treat clients with
Sarah (17:22)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (17:41)
with financial connection, which is all of them, their unique situation needs to be validated and respected. And so do yours listening out there, right? If you don't see anybody living the same financial life that you're living, it doesn't mean that they're, number one, that you're wrong, number two, that you need to do something differently, or number three, that there isn't somebody out there who has a very similar circumstance to you out there. And I think that's important and something I wish I would have known.
Sarah (17:48)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Casey (18:10)
when I was 16 trying to be a grownup. I wish somebody had told me that.
Sarah (18:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think along with that, because everyone has different values when it comes, everyone has different experiences, right? Like money, like you just said, it's going to be so vast. It's going to be so different the way that we all interact with it. And I think it's really interesting when there's tension. I think about my financial situation versus like my parents' financial situation when they were my age, right? And how different the times are. I sound really old, right? How different the times are now than they were then.
Casey (18:35)
Mmm, mm-hmm.
Sarah (18:44)
and the expectation that I will be in a certain place now because of my age, because of the business, because of whatever, without the understanding of how different things are, how different things are in the here and now than they were however many years ago. It's interesting when there's this conflict of values well, my values around money are this and my values of money around this. And I just started to maybe reestablish them in the past decade.
Casey (18:51)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Sarah (19:13)
because there weren't any values around money. It was just like, there's money, cool. Let's have fun, right? Which is also great and also a little scary all at the same time, But this clashing of values, all of that to say, it's so important to pull apart your values and what do you value? See where you've come from, see what your patterns are, be super compassionate with yourself and establish your values around money because you can have specific money values.
Casey (19:13)
All
Right.
Yeah.
yes, no matter how much money you have or what you use your money for. And I think that's something that I've always wanted to have as a steady belief as a person, but also as a clinician is, you my mom used to say, and I love telling this story, but we went to and
Sarah (19:48)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (20:05)
I went with Chris, or we were deciding to go to McDonald's, excuse me. And I said, do you want to eat in? Like, do you want to eat at the McDonald's? And he goes, who eats at the McDonald's? Like, you get the drive-through, you know what mean? And I thought about it, and this like overwhelming like shame came over me because I remembered.
that my mom would always, we would always eat at a fast food joint. And my mom would always say, you know, no matter how much money you spend on food, you deserve to eat like a respectable human being. And I told him that and, you know, we've been together for like almost a decade. And he was like, I never knew that, you know, like when I think about that, that makes a lot of sense.
Sarah (20:43)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Casey (20:55)
Right? So my mom always taught me that no matter how much money you have, you still deserve to be treated with dignity. And I think, you know, in making this podcast episode, that's really what I want. Right? Is no matter how much money you have, no matter how you use your money, you know, no matter how much, how money touches your life, you deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
Sarah (21:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Casey (21:18)
because unfortunately that's not what our society teaches. And that grinds my ears.
Sarah (21:23)
Yeah, along with the idea that money or things can't be pleasurable if you don't have money, right? Like this idea that because money is scarce that you shouldn't have access to nice things, you know? Right? How fucked up is that?
Casey (21:36)
Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Fucked up. Fucked up. Yes.
Sarah (21:41)
Right?
Yeah, like every this is what we talk about, right? Everyone is, you know, deserving of joy and fun and pleasure and all of those things, Regardless.
Casey (21:54)
I think, you know, being able to do the job that we do, we get to instill that in people as much as possible. And I guess, you know, in talking about this in this first episode, I hope that that people take that with them. You know, if you felt like you didn't deserve, you know, anything, despite your financial situation that, you you do, you deserve to feel safe.
You deserve to feel fun. You deserve to feel dignity and respect. And if you don't, I am sincerely sorry. That's not fair and that's not right. But I hope that in our future episodes, you start to understand yourself a little bit more and you give yourself some compassion that there's a reason why you feel that way. And hopefully our podcast can help you feel a little lighter.
Sarah (22:44)
So this is like a little intro episode to our series on money and we're just going to be coming at you, me and Casey, for the next, I don't know, however many episodes we choose And so yeah, we're going to be covering lots of stuff. Want to give everyone a little, I don't know, a teaser on What's to Come?
Casey (22:53)
TBD.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think we're gonna continue to break down money and mental health, whether that's how it's connected to trauma, how it's connected to relationships, how it's connected to future planning and goal setting. Also thinking about, I'm thinking just like the experiences that a lot of people have around anxiety and depression connected to money.
So we're gonna try as much as possible to intertwine mental health and money in as many ways as we think we can do that in. So there's a little preview. attachment, macro level, capitalism. If anybody's looking to talk about capitalism, come to episode X. I don't know what episode it'll be, but it'll be great.
Sarah (23:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Attachment tendencies and money. Mm.
yeah, we're going there.
We'll create a table of contents, I don't know.
Casey (23:46)
I'm looking forward to it. think this is important and I hope that listeners enjoy.
Sarah (23:53)
Absolutely. And you know, I'm just thinking about McDonald's real quick because you were just talking about it. McDonald's is so expensive now. Can we just like put that out there? Holy crap. Like happy meals. Like they're not super happy because It's like probably over 40 bucks for the four of us to get food, like meals. me and my husband get a meal, right? And my kids get happy meals. It's over 40 bucks.
Casey (23:56)
yes.
dude.
Yeah, how much is a Happy Meal
Yeah.
No.
egregious. Like that, there's something wrong with that.
Sarah (24:16)
Yeah, it's That's for sure.
Casey (24:21)
Yeah, I mean back in our day, we're also gonna be showing our age a little bit as we talk about money, but let that be a sign, right, that we all come from different places and perspectives and, you know, that's just reiterating our point, to be honest. So if you go to McDonald's and you wanna eat inside, maybe allow yourself to eat inside, see how it feels.
Sarah (24:24)
back in our day.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, see how it feels to sit.
Casey (24:47)
set yourself up with a nice napkin and have a clean table and see how it feels.
Sarah (24:50)
Come out.
Yeah, and just hang, right? Enjoy the experience. Next song. Mm, holler.
Casey (24:56)
Thanks, Mom. You're the best.
Sarah (25:01)
Okay everybody, so we're gonna be coming back and we're gonna get into this. So as we exit this first episode of just history and why we're talking about this and maybe where we're coming from, maybe take these questions with you. Casey, you wanna say the questions? Take them with you, if you can.
Casey (25:19)
Yes, yes. So think about these. What money was for you, what money is, and what I hope money will be.
Think about it.
Sarah (25:29)
Alright, think about it. And then if you have questions, thoughts you want us to talk about on the pod, you know, shoot us an email. A message on Instagram. whatever you
Casey (25:39)
Right on.
Sarah (25:42)
Alright, so until next week, Casey. Bye. See ya.
Reclaim Therapy is a group of trauma therapists that provide therapy for eating disorders, EMDR Therapy and therapy or Complex PTSD.
Our team is passionate about helping people reclaim their lives from diet culture, body shame and the impact of trauma.
We would love to support you as you Reclaim YOU and the life that you undeniably deserve.