Money Talk: Capitalism and Its Impact
Season 2: Episode 22
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On today's episode Sarah and Casey dive deep into how capitalism shapes our daily lives, mental health, and sense of self-worth. From the historical roots of Wall Street to the modern housing crisis, they unpack the often invisible ways our economic system impacts everything from basic needs to personal hobbies.
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Sarah (00:37)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Reclaim You. We're talking about capitalism.
Casey (00:41)
one of my favorite topics.
Sarah (00:41)
Yeah. Yes, yes. I know last episode I was like, wait, don't give your spiel.
Casey (00:47)
I know I was talking to my husband in preparation for this episode and he was like, I come on? I was like, that's cute.
Sarah (00:56)
special guest.
Casey (00:57)
special guest who's not a therapist. He would, he would, and it was interesting talking to him about it because he has an accounting background versus me having a mental health background. It's interesting what people find important about various topics depending on where their lens is that they're looking at it. So that was interesting his mindset is
Sarah (00:59)
Hey, he'd give us a pretty hot take, I bet.
Yeah.
Casey (01:23)
you know, the corruption of it all, which is pertinent, but mine's like the lack of humanity in it all. So, today, we're gonna do it through how macro lens, ricochet down to us?
Sarah (01:41)
Yep, how does it filter down through?
Casey (01:43)
Yeah. So we hear capitalism, right? Turn on CNN, turn on those economic podcasts that we're talking about from time to time. But I think it's important to realize like what that actually is. know, capitalism is a concept, an economic concept, and I'll use Wikipedia for a definition.
Sarah (01:44)
Yeah.
you
Casey (02:06)
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. So in a nutshell, capitalism, the word capital. Capital is profit and understanding that the US understands and uses capitalism for exactly that. It's...
companies making their own decisions, open competition, free market, being able to charge whatever they want, supply and demand, coerce each other, which in my mind as a therapist, think, hmm, is there any regards for humans in this? No.
Sarah (02:50)
truth.
Casey (02:50)
Because you think of capitalism, right? And you think of Wall Street, right? And how did Wall Street start? So it's just a little history, just a little bit, and then we'll get back to the... So Wall Street, we think the name was deemed from the Dutch, where there was literally a wall.
Sarah (03:02)
podcast that I did not listen to on the way home from Boston last week.
Casey (03:18)
where it is in New York City. And the main moneymaker was slavery. So capitalism and Wall Street and our economic production obviously started with slavery. literally the abuse of humans for profit. And what I was talking to my husband and he said,
I know what's really interesting is that Wall Street has never left New York. I was like, hmm, that is interesting. And to think about why that is, right? The idea of like keeping things in a certain place and designating them and, you able to control based off of location and geographic need and that kind of stuff.
So we also think of when in the United States there's been economic collapse, right? You have the Great Depression, which at that time President Roosevelt tried to come from that and say, you know what? We should help the middleman. We should help.
you know, the people who are actually struggling. That got kiboshed. Nobody cared about that because then more revolution was happening, more money to be made, et cetera. Then you have 08, which we lived through, right? Which was big, huge corporations who benefit off of capitalism getting paid to survive through this, which didn't help any of us.
In a nutshell, capitalism, capital, profit, greed. That's how I like to think about it. So, I think, you know, when it comes to how does this affect mental health, well, I think about all of the things like barriers to care, right? We have health insurance. Health insurance is a for-profit.
And why do we get our health insurance through our employers? Well, it actually started because there was low rates of unemployment. So in order to get people to...
continue to work and continue to look for jobs, they had to find something that would make people want to invest in it. But it wasn't paying them more, it was making them pay into their own health insurance. So now that leaves us here in 2024, right, where health insurance is a trillion dollar company. And if you want to get mental health services, it's red tape, red tape, red tape.
all of these things that they're required. And it might not even pan out the way that you had hoped it would. Which sucks. Inflation. I don't actually know why inflation happens. Right, you remember when eggs last year were like six dollars a dozen?
Sarah (06:06)
I think I just blanked it out.
Casey (06:08)
It's okay. It's okay. I got you. I got you. So eggs went through the roof last year.
Sarah (06:15)
everything has just been through the roof for so long at this point that I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna spend a million dollars every time I go to the grocery store.
Casey (06:20)
Well, right, we become desensitized to it because we don't have a choice. Right? So eggs were $6 and I'm thinking, my gosh, that's really bizarre. Must be a reason, right? And there's news articles about, you know, a bunch of chickens died or something. Do we actually know that that happened, right?
Sarah (06:22)
Yeah, exactly. We have no choice.
I mean, there are a lot of chickens around.
Casey (06:42)
You know, there's plenty to pick from, you know, and they're always producing eggs. But I use, I like to use this as an example when explaining, you know, why is this so corrupt? Because there's no transparency, right? There's no transparency on why eggs cost $6 one week and $2 the next.
Sarah (06:45)
Yes.
Casey (07:03)
There's no transparency as to why your car insurance premium goes up out of nowhere or your health insurance or your taxes on your home, your property taxes, right? And the lack of transparency for people who are knowledgeable about money is still frustrating. But to think that, you know, people just live and are susceptible to have to adjust their lives constantly because things keep changing, but there's not a reason why.
I just think of the stock market, how crazy it is with people running around and numbers everywhere. I have no idea what's going on. I have no idea what's happening in that room. But they do. Apparently they do. And I think it's not only using knowledge and education as gatekeeping.
Sarah (07:42)
Of not, yeah. Apparently.
Casey (07:55)
but it's fear-mongering, it's coercion, because banks are part of capitalism, right? And we talked last episode about credit cards and loans and living beyond your means, how it's so easy to do in this society because it makes other companies more money.
So, you know, when you get down to the, you know, the bare bones of it, like if you can't afford your groceries, you're not worried about like, you know, what is the system at large? That's a privilege. I don't know it. I know some of it, but barely any. And, you know, thinking about all of the corruption that happens, you know, behind the curtain, as I like to say.
Sarah (08:25)
Right, yeah, you're worried about surviving.
Casey (08:38)
we have to try and make sense of it as just people. Right? So is it, I'm not doing enough or I'm not trying hard enough or I went into the wrong profession or I mean, if I didn't make this mistake, would I be in this situation or, you know, I'm not educated enough to understand this and blah, blah, blah, blah, So I think that leaves people very confused.
And it's kind of like a toxic relationship, so to speak. No communication, coercion, control, financial abuse, and we just have to function in it. I don't know if that sounds dramatic. I don't think it does. I think that's very valid.
Sarah (09:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep.
it does either. think it's reality. Yeah, like when you zoom out and you look at it. I mean, we're not used to zooming out and looking at it because we're all just used to like living our lives and trying to survive in this system that we live in. That, yeah, it's not dramatic. It's just real when you look at the larger picture and how that larger picture impacts us as individuals.
Casey (09:39)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the fact that capitalism to function can't prioritize humanity. Right? So basic needs like food and shelter and health care and education. All of those are what the general public, know, middle class America, middle class America.
has been complaining about four years. Right? And there's all these like little side shoot like handouts, right? It's like, we're gonna increase SNAP benefits this year or, you know, now we have like, you know, the marketplace for health insurance or whatever it may be, right? But even that has rentate, right? You have to be poor enough. You have to be struggling enough.
So again, it's having to constantly prove your either worthiness or vulnerability to get help, which should be a basic human right to have.
Sarah (10:44)
Right, to get your needs met. Yeah, yeah, your basic needs.
Casey (10:48)
Right. And then the ricochet of what happens when those needs aren't met, right? If that is violence, if that is, you know, being in abusive relationships or being in jobs that are dangerous or being in living situations that are dangerous. I mean, the list could go on and on. But capitalism doesn't care about that. This is still making a dollar.
which is infuriating.
Sarah (11:14)
It is, it really is.
Yeah, deep breath.
Casey (11:16)
If I think about it too hard, my brain starts to hurt. It's just a, woof, woof, woof. know, I'm in the middle of looking for a house. And it's...
Sarah (11:19)
starts to glitch a little.
Wait, let's just zoom out though. This is like round three for Casey. Poor Casey. She's been looking for a house. This is like the third round. yeah, yeah. Going on three. Yeah, cause I gave you all my boxes when I moved two and a half years
Casey (11:33)
yeah. What was it, three years?
we go. Yep, that was the first time literally having to take breaks because you know when you look at the housing market today it's funny if we look at this podcast like I don't know five years from now and see if that has changed it probably won't. Where you know it kind of just feels like whiplash you know you go and well let's backtrack I'm getting ahead of myself.
Sarah (11:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Casey (12:05)
Like when you think about growing up and buying a house, like that just seems like a rite of passage, right? Like now I know I've made it. It's the only thing I haven't done yet. That's what I told myself. And you you start going through a process at which we were doing at what, 2021, 2022, something like that. Which is just, you know.
Sarah (12:26)
22, yeah, 2022, yeah.
Casey (12:31)
right after the time where the housing market just was turned into a clusterfuck.
Sarah (12:36)
Yes, it was a clusterfuck.
Casey (12:39)
Yeah, interest rates were kind of low, but it meant the houses were really high. And so, know, houses in, you know, most of America, I can't say the West Coast, let's just say East Coast, literally doubled in price.
for no other reason than they could. That's it. They could. There's no other reason. And when you think about like every place, you even up in Canada, the housing crisis is huge. And part of that is the lack of accessibility for people to own property. So then they're susceptible to the rent, which is more than a mortgage.
Sarah (13:00)
They could, yes.
Casey (13:24)
and something that people can't afford. So, to think about how many houses I've looked at, it's nauseating. To think about how many houses we've put offers on is nauseating, and also to think about how many of our wants and values we have disregarded.
Sarah (13:41)
Yes.
Casey (13:43)
To make that happen is, again, nauseating.
Sarah (13:48)
Yes. Yes.
Casey (13:50)
And, you know, it puts a strain on relationships. I mean, we know that finances are one of the, you know, biggest hitters in terms of triggering just emotional overwhelm, which leads to communication issues and just lots of things. But for the sake of, you know, the relationship being important, we had to take breaks.
because we just couldn't keep going at the rate that we were going. So, you know, to think of, you know, this is a very privileged problem to have, I will recognize that. But to be able to go into this journey feeling like I'm going to war.
Like this is not fun, this is not, you know, hopeful, this is not like, that house is cute. It's like, what's wrong with it? Why is it overpriced? What bidding war are we gonna get into tomorrow? You know, what sacrifices are we making for this house? That's all it is. Which makes it not fun and not something that you wanna do.
Sarah (14:44)
Yes, Yep.
Casey (14:49)
And I think a lot of people are going through that. mean, especially people, you know, that are going for their first time house because they don't have collateral. They don't have, you know, things to make themselves worthy in the market of the capitalist housing market. So that is the struggle. But what I think is really interesting, too, and this is part of it, right, is the generational differences.
Sarah (14:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Casey (15:17)
and how if Chris watches this podcast, he's gonna laugh. Because one of my biggest gripes is how many times people have asked me how it's going.
like one person, more person asks me how it's going, I'm going to lose my shit. Like I'm actually gonna lose it. Because how many times I've had people say, know, like, it's hard, but like, eventually it works out or I remember our house and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, what back in 1974?
Sarah (15:33)
Hmm.
I know, I know when you spent $40,000 on a house.
Casey (15:52)
Yeah, of course it was easier, right? And people who have, you know, that part of maybe their culture within their family was for somebody to help them buy a house. And like, that's not, you know, we're kind of like the pulled up from your bootstraps kind of family. So that wasn't an option. And so, you know, this capitalist society we live in really doesn't bode well for
Sarah (15:54)
Mm-hmm.
Casey (16:18)
people who have to work hard and don't have a lot of financial support, but also want to take care of themselves. There's no room for them. Right? So if you want to take care of yourself, your sacrifices, you don't get the American dream, quote unquote. Right? And that's, you know, I think that's what we've normalized.
Right, the nine to five job where you have to commute an hour and you don't get to spend time with your kids and all of this stuff, like that is normal. And I don't actually know what it would look like otherwise. Do you? I don't.
Sarah (16:51)
Right, right. No, I have no idea. I have no idea. Right, because this becomes so internalized, right? It's become so internalized. It's like just part of our beings at this point, you know?
Casey (16:55)
Like you think of like, yeah.
And I think about European countries that have...
I wouldn't say they don't have some form of capitalist values, but it's very different. More of the socialist, more, you know, everybody's means coming together to serve everyone. However, anybody in listening wants to interpret that, they can.
And it gives, I think, a lot of support to just humanness, right? Whether it's maternity paternity leave, whether it's, you know, the price of groceries or the price of housing, because you're not having to pay for things like health insurance and...
you know, time off and different services within the community. It just, it seems to work better. But I don't know. United States have never lived under that type of rule and never will. Never will. Because it doesn't make money. And I think, you know, people that do come here and see it for themselves who didn't grow up here, it probably feels very strange.
Sarah (17:53)
Right, yeah, you hope you don't know.
Yes.
Casey (18:09)
very strange. I'd be interested to talk to people who aren't in America. How do you perceive the United States financial situation? I'd be like, no.
Sarah (18:14)
Right. How do you perceive this? Yeah.
and I think even more about this internalization, internalized capitalism and how it shows up in our day-to-day, which I think for a lot of people, especially trauma survivors, it impacts how they live in the world. It impacts self-worth, like you were talking about. Are you worthy to be able to buy a house because of the way the system is set up or not set up to support people to get their needs met?
I think social media, I don't know, I think about internalized capitalism, I think about social media. Yeah, just how everything is monetized. Every hobby, every hobby, it's like, how can I monetize this? How can I continue to be quote unquote productive all the time?
Casey (18:56)
Mmm, tell me about it.
Yes.
Sarah (19:14)
It's like we commodify ourselves to continue to sell, to continue to make money, to continue to support the greater system when we're just trying to support ourselves at the same time. right, you scroll Instagram, the idea of influencers, right? I don't think before COVID influencers existed. Maybe I was, I don't know, I had a baby, so maybe I missed that. But like that didn't exist until recent years, right? And now everyone's an influencer.
Casey (19:28)
Hmm... yeah.
Hahaha!
Sarah (19:43)
making money by like swiping up.
And it's just normal. It's just normal.
Casey (19:50)
Yeah, yeah. And even that to the general public, like to you and me, feels quite arbitrary. Like, what is that? How much are you making, right? There's no like financial transparency. And I think it's gotten better over the years, but like prior to COVID, prior to your child,
Sarah (20:04)
Right.
Casey (20:13)
Influencers were, I remember YouTube. That was where a lot of people made money, right? There was like the comedic YouTubers and like the beauty influencers, right? But that was so like, I remember looking at that and being like, how are you making a living? Right, it's so behind the curtain that you don't actually know the ins and outs of it.
Sarah (20:17)
YouTube, yep. Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Casey (20:40)
And now it's even more accessible, right? Swipe up, affiliate links, Amazon links, this and that, Patreon and Twitch and all of these things where people can make money. But I just think like, what does that speak to, right? At the end of the day, does that speak to, you know, the predatory nature of social media and capitalism together, That say like, you can make money.
Sarah (20:42)
Yeah, affiliate links. Yep.
Why aren't you?
Casey (21:06)
Right? But does anybody tell them that they have to pay taxes on that money? Does anybody tell them that? Probably not. You know, it's happened with many different types of influencer markets, I guess. OnlyFans was one of the big ones that came out. And I read a lot of information about
Sarah (21:25)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Casey (21:30)
people who didn't understand the financial aspect of that and there was no financial transparency. So it's kind of like what we talked about last week where if you get a lot of money, right, and you're not used to that, it's just kind of, and you just get overwhelmed with how much freedom you have and then you spend it. And because we're talking about like taking advantage of the younger adults in this society,
that they're not taught that. So then tax season comes around and it's inherently traumatic. Right? They go, have thousands of dollars and they're like, what do you mean? Because, you know, whatever the powers that be don't care. Because then the IRS is just going to get on your back anyway. So it doesn't matter. They're off the table, right? They're like, it's not my problem anymore. But you bring up a good point, right? Like is anything
Sarah (21:59)
Right, right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Casey (22:25)
not for profit.
Sarah (22:27)
Right, right. How we structure our days, how we feel guilty for resting, how we engage in certain relationships if they're beneficial or it feels like nothing is super relational Like you have to find it. Everyone's hustling. Everyone's trying to keep up and comparing themselves against people. Right, like it's a whole thing.
Casey (22:49)
Yeah, I mean, you brought up a good point about like, when you said hobbies, and I was thinking like, how many, you know, people, professional or personal, have struggled with hobbies that I've spoken to, right? Like, I just don't know how to have fun anymore.
Sarah (23:07)
Yeah, yeah.
Casey (23:09)
Well, in capitalist society, like fun is a privilege. If you live within it and you're trying to achieve the most, the requirements are you don't take care of yourself and you don't have fun because they don't make money. And, you know, that's really sad. That makes me really, really sad.
Sarah (23:12)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Casey (23:30)
and to think we all deserve connection not only to safe people, but safe activities and safe environments. I look forward to curling up with a good book every weekend or even at night. And if I had to vlog that or post a picture on Instagram or...
Sarah (23:45)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yes.
But make it aesthetic. Make it aesthetic first. Yeah.
Casey (23:54)
Yeah, but make it aesthetic and hashtag this and like it would literally be what I would dread doing. And to put myself in the shoes of people who function like that every single day and their mental health probably is not great. Now, if you're not finding joy and you're stressed all the time, of course you're not doing well. That makes sense.
Yeah, I feel like we could, you again, go in any different direction about this, but I think my goal of talking about capitalism is just creating a little bit more transparency for compassion's sake. Right, if you understand, just like with diet culture, right, we have done podcasts about the history of diet culture and where that was created and...
different oppressions that came to be in this big ball of you're not enoughness. Doing it the same way with money. Because it didn't start with you. It's not, you're not the problem. You didn't create this. don't...
necessarily have to fix it. It's not, you know, like this was created so many years prior to us existing and the way that we respond to it is completely valid. If you're an influencer that makes your hobbies make money, that's okay. If you're somebody who's like, I can't even take or have, I don't even have the energy to think about what capitalism is. And that's totally fine.
Sarah (25:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Casey (25:26)
right, if you don't have the energy for that. I think it speaks to like, this is the cookie cutter society we live in. And if you're struggling to fit into that mold, it's not your fault.
Sarah (25:38)
fault. Yeah, it was designed like this.
Casey (25:41)
with design like this. And I try to remind myself of that at the Ford's house I went to on Saturday. Like, it's not my fault. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. So I think, you know, in saying that I have to remind myself, because it's definitely something that we have struggled with in this process. And so, you know, I just want to put that out there for people too. It's like, you know, life is such a struggle today, whether it's...
Sarah (25:47)
Not my fault. Not my fault.
Casey (26:08)
you know, politics or money or jobs or uncertainty about the future, things constantly changing and, you know, like, it's hard enough. Don't add another thing to blame yourself for. Because we're living in it too.
Sarah (26:21)
Absolutely. Yeah, and we fall victim to it too, of course, right? And it's easy to put the blinders up and just not notice that eggs are $6 a dozen. Because you're just trying to get eggs for your kid. Right, yeah, they're not anymore. I know that because I just bought groceries yesterday. But, yeah.
Casey (26:27)
100 %
They're now not, so that's there you go. See? They were 2.15, I was like, yes!
Sarah (26:44)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, it's deep, right?
Casey (26:48)
It is deep. It is deep. But I mean, I think even just talking about it in the, you know, chaotic style that I embrace here at the podcast, like even just looking it up, looking up capitalism, looking up the history of Wall Street, you know, looking up free market.
just educating yourself on what that actually means. Because when we think about teaching clients different things, like what is shame versus what is guilt? What is the nuance of restriction? It's not something that you have to memorize, it's not something that you have to stress about just keeping in your brain, but it's just that moment of like,
Sarah (27:23)
Right.
Casey (27:28)
Just like that breath that you take of like, of course, of course that, yeah. And everybody needs that. So if you're wondering about something, I encourage you to do a quick Google search. Like it never hurts. And if you're confused about like I used to be about writing a check and I had to Google it.
Sarah (27:32)
it makes so much sense. Yeah.
Casey (27:51)
It's okay, because every time you educate yourself, it's bringing more compassion to your circumstance, to your situation, to your, you know, the struggle. And I think that's very important in terms of the society that we live in.
Sarah (27:52)
Okay.
And it feels just like diet culture, Because it is like an offshoot of diet, right? It's all connected. But when you think about like tossing diet culture out the window, maybe that's not the move. You know, maybe it's that understanding and really strategically considering like where am I willing and able to divest even just a little bit, a little teeny tiny bit.
Casey (28:09)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah (28:27)
from this culture and maybe you're not at all and that's okay too, but it's like, you don't need to throw out the whole thing, you know, or try to uproot the system all right now, but how can you preserve your mental health? By pulling back a little bit or just seeing a little bit to bring yourself a little bit more compassionate grace.
Casey (28:46)
And that's all the podcast goals in the series. It's, you know, this is not an encouragement to uproot your life in various ways to, you know, totally change your outlook on money. But it's just like this grace that I think as we talk about it, we're giving ourselves, but that we encourage everyone to give themselves. You know, we're all touched by diet culture. We're all touched by capitalism. And to think that you can live past it.
You know, you can, you know, live without it. It's simply not true. Just like we tell our folks in recovery, you can't live a life outside of diet culture. It just doesn't exist. But you can learn to, it is the culture. So you can learn to adjust and give grace when you can't and give grace when you don't have space to even think about it. Right? That's okay too.
Sarah (29:27)
it is the culture. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Casey (29:40)
So I'm not going to feel bad for buying $6 grapes because I want them, you know? And eggs, if they're $6 and I can afford that and I have the privilege, I'm gonna buy them, you know? And it is what it is.
Sarah (29:45)
Yes. Yes.
Yes.
Thank you, friend.
Anything you wanna add real quick before we go?
Casey (30:00)
I mean, I think, you know, just reiterating the intention of the podcast, think, you know, is really important that all of the podcast episodes that we produce is, I think, first and foremost, insight for compassion. You know, that if this helps you feel seen or heard or unified in your struggle, that's the goal. And whatever else you take from that.
Go for it.
Sarah (30:26)
All right, everyone, we will be back next week. Until then, take care.
Reclaim Therapy is a group of trauma therapists that provide therapy for eating disorders, EMDR Therapy and therapy for Complex PTSD.
Our team is passionate about helping people reclaim their lives from diet culture, body shame and the impact of trauma.
We would love to support you as you Reclaim YOU and the life that you undeniably deserve.